quote:

---

Op 8 november 2004 22:12 schreef Oebe het volgende:
Nee, hoe kom je daarbij?

Ik zeg dat ze een nucleair arsenaal nodig hebben om zich de V.S. van het lijf te houden en dat geldt voor N.K. ook. En die hebben een nog veel ergere regering zoals je wellicht weinig overtuiging behoeft.

Alleen zijn de V.S. niet zozeer bang voor een nucleair N.K. maar voor een nucleair Zuid-Korea. Dat is de reden waarom de ontspanningspolitiek tussen Noord en Zuid Korea moest worden doorbroken.

---

Mijn god.

Woorden van een topadviseur van G.W.Bush, niet God.

quote:

---

Op 7 november 2004 17:30 schreef Hapna Hapna het volgende:
Voor n 'war on terror' moet je eerst 'terror' hebben, dus organisaties a la al-qaida.

---

Dat is wel een erg beperkte kijk op het begrip terrorisme vind je zelf ook niet?

quote:

---

Op 8 november 2004 0:53 schreef Manifest het volgende:
Ik denk niet dat ze zo snel N-Korea en Iran aanvallen.

Misschien wat sancties. Ze zijn beide namelijk veel sterker als een land zoals Irak en minder verdeeld.
Laatst wou de US nog Iran voor de UN-raad slepen met betrekking tot de "kernfusie" ontwikkelingen.
Maar China heeft zijn veto uitgesproken.

---

Of ze die landen aanvallen of niet. Ze zij min of meer een bedrijging en vallen onder ' het as van het kwaad'. Als je een eventuele aanval op die landen niet onder 'the war on terrorism' van Bush vindt vallen dan hoort de aanval op Irak er ook niet bij.

N-Korea zie ik ook niet snel aangevallen worden al zal ik er geen traan om laten als er vandaag of morgen een paar kruisraketten daar naar binnen vliegen.
Iran vind ik wel een potientieel doel. Over Irak liep men destijds ook te janken dat het een sterk intelectueel land met een tevrede bevolking was; Nou we hebben het gezien.

quote:

---

Op 4 november 2004 20:52 schreef Chelman het volgende:
Moore is weldeglijk een leugenaar. Hij werpt zich namelijk op als obnjectieve documentarist. Dat is hij niet, of je nu met hem eens bent of niet.

---

Moore is als een columnist. In dit geval met een film. Hij laat gewoon puur zijn mening zien meer niet. Een leugenaar, laat me niet lachen. Hij toont slechts misstanden aan uit Amerika.

quote:

---

Op 9 november 2004 8:12 schreef kwelgeest het volgende:

Over Irak liep men destijds ook te janken dat het een sterk intelectueel land met een tevrede bevolking was; Nou we hebben het gezien.

---

Ik kan me de cijfers niet perfect voor de geest halen maar ik meen dat een aardig groot percentage van de Iraakse bevolking studeert of heeft gestudeerd. Intellectueel is een deel van de bevolking dus zeker wel. En wat betreft een tevreden bevolking, ik weet niet of je het over tevreden hebt onder de Saddam tijd of onder de Amerikaanse overheersing maar op een heleboel punten is het na de val van Saddam niet beter geworden. Vrij logisch dat je dan als bevolking niet loopt te juichen, afgezien van het feit dat het minder dan positief is om door de V.S. overheerst te worden.

quote:

---

Op 9 november 2004 8:12 schreef kwelgeest het volgende:
N-Korea zie ik ook niet snel aangevallen worden al zal ik er geen traan om laten als er vandaag of morgen een paar kruisraketten daar naar binnen vliegen.
Iran vind ik wel een potientieel doel. Over Irak liep men destijds ook te janken dat het een sterk intelectueel land met een tevrede bevolking was; Nou we hebben het gezien.

---

Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat er hier in het westen een persoon zo idioot is geweest om te zeggen dat de bevolking van Irak tevreden was.

quote:

---

Op 9 november 2004 10:00 schreef arrebar het volgende:
Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat er hier in het westen een persoon zo idioot is geweest om te zeggen dat de bevolking van Irak tevreden was.

---

Je zag des tijds allemaal van die Irakezen die naar Amerika waren gevlucht vertellen over hoe geweldig Irak was en dat Amerika niet moest aanvallen want dat zou eenm grote ramp worden etc etc.
En zulke lui hadden het destijds over de intellectuele tevredebevolking van Irak, die zogenaamd toch wel Saddam zou blijven steunen.

Arg wat heb ik een hekel aan Chauvinistische immigranten.

Evidence Mounts that the Vote Was Hacked
By Thom Hartmann
CommonDreams.org

Saturday 06 November 2004

When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004),
the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from
Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up. Fisher
has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but
of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these
same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so
that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a
real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.

"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.

And some believe evidence is accumulating that the national effort
happened on November 2, 2004.

The State of Florida, for example, publishes a county-by-county record of
votes cast and people registered to vote by party affiliation. Net denizen
Kathy Dopp compiled the official state information into a table, available
at [11]http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm, and noticed something
startling.

While the heavily scrutinized touch-screen voting machines seemed to
produce results in which the registered Democrat/Republican ratios largely
matched the Kerry/Bush vote, in Florida's counties using results from
optically scanned paper ballots - fed into a central tabulator PC and thus
vulnerable to hacking - the results seem to contain substantial anomalies.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them
Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry
and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the
country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and
a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry,
but 4,433 voted for Bush.

The pattern repeats over and over again - but only in the counties where
optical scanners were used. Franklin County, 77.3% registered Democrats,
went 58.5% for Bush. Holmes County, 72.7% registered Democrats, went
77.25% for Bush.

Yet in the touch-screen counties, where investigators may have been more
vigorously looking for such anomalies, high percentages of registered
Democrats generally equaled high percentages of votes for Kerry. (I had
earlier reported that county size was a variable - this turns out not to
be the case. Just the use of touch-screens versus optical scanners.)

More visual analysis of the results can be seen at
[12]http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm, and
[13]www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm. Note the trend line - the
only variable that determines a swing toward Bush was the use of optical
scan machines.

One possible explanation for this is the "Dixiecrat" theory, that in
Florida white voters (particularly the rural ones) have been registered as
Democrats for years, but voting Republican since Reagan. Looking at the
2000 statistics, also available on Dopp's site, there are similar
anomalies, although the trends are not as strong as in 2004. But some
suggest the 2000 election may have been questionable in Florida, too.

One of the people involved in Dopp's analysis noted that it may be
possible to determine the validity of the "rural Democrat" theory by
comparing Florida's white rural counties to those of Pennsylvania, another
swing state but one that went for Kerry, as the exit polls there
predicted. Interestingly, the Pennsylvania analysis, available at
[14]http://ustogether.org/election04/PA_vote_patt.htm, doesn't show the
same kind of swings as does Florida, lending credence to the possibility
of problems in Florida.

Even more significantly, Dopp had first run the analysis while filtering
out smaller (rural) counties, and still found that the only variable that
accounted for a swing toward Republican voting was the use of optical-scan
machines, whereas counties with touch-screen machines generally didn't
swing - regardless of size.

Others offer similar insights, based on other data. A professor at the
University of Massachusetts, Amherst, noted that in Florida the vote to
raise the minimum wage was approved by 72%, although Kerry got 48%. "The
correlation between voting for the minimum wage increase and voting for
Kerry isn't likely to be perfect," he noted, "but one would normally
expect that the gap - of 1.5 million votes - to be far smaller than it
was."

While all of this may or may not be evidence of vote tampering, it again
brings the nation back to the question of why several states using
electronic voting machines or scanners programmed by private, for-profit
corporations and often connected to modems produced votes inconsistent
with exit poll numbers.

Those exit poll results have been a problem for reporters ever since
Election Day.

Election night, I'd been doing live election coverage for WDEV, one of the
radio stations that carries my syndicated show, and, just after midnight,
during the 12:20 a.m. Associated Press Radio News feed, I was startled to
hear the reporter detail how Karen Hughes had earlier sat George W. Bush
down to inform him that he'd lost the election. The exit polls were clear:
Kerry was winning in a landslide. "Bush took the news stoically," noted
the AP report.

But then the computers reported something different. In several pivotal
states.

Conservatives see a conspiracy here: They think the exit polls were
rigged.

Dick Morris, the infamous political consultant to the first Clinton
campaign who became a Republican consultant and Fox News regular, wrote an
article for [15]The Hill, the publication read by every political junkie
in Washington, DC, in which he made a couple of brilliant points.

"Exit Polls are almost never wrong," Morris wrote. "They eliminate the two
major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating
actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do
and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the
relative turnout of different parts of the state."

He added: "So, according to ABC-TVs exit polls, for example, Kerry was
slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all
of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush
was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points."

Yet a few hours after the exit polls were showing a clear Kerry sweep, as
the computerized vote numbers began to come in from the various states the
election was called for Bush.

How could this happen?

On the CNBC TV show "Topic A With Tina Brown," several months ago, Howard
Dean had filled in for Tina Brown as guest host. His guest was Bev Harris,
the Seattle grandmother who started [16]www.blackboxvoting.org from her
living room. Bev pointed out that regardless of how votes were tabulated
(other than hand counts, only done in odd places like small towns in
Vermont), the real "counting" is done by computers. Be they Diebold
Opti-Scan machines, which read paper ballots filled in by pencil or ink in
the voter's hand, or the scanners that read punch cards, or the machines
that simply record a touch of the screen, in all cases the final tally is
sent to a "central tabulator" machine.

That central tabulator computer is a Windows-based PC.

"In a voting system," Harris explained to Dean on national television,
"you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling
places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling
places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so
it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do
something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient
to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with
all of them at once?"

Dean nodded in rhetorical agreement, and Harris continued. "What surprises
people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I
use. It's just a regular computer."

"So," Dean said, "anybody who can hack into a PC can hack into a central
tabulator?"

Harris nodded affirmation, and pointed out how Diebold uses a program
called GEMS, which fills the screen of the PC and effectively turns it
into the central tabulator system. "This is the official program that the
County Supervisor sees," she said, pointing to a PC that was sitting
between them loaded with Diebold's software.

Bev then had Dean open the GEMS program to see the results of a test
election. They went to the screen titled "Election Summary Report" and
waited a moment while the PC "adds up all the votes from all the various
precincts," and then saw that in this faux election Howard Dean had 1000
votes, Lex Luthor had 500, and Tiger Woods had none. Dean was winning.

"Of course, you can't tamper with this software," Harris noted. Diebold
wrote a pretty good program.

But, it's running on a Windows PC.

So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS software, go back to the normal
Windows PC desktop, click on the "My Computer" icon, choose "Local Disk
C:," open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder "LocalDB" which,
Harris noted, "stands for local database, that's where they keep the
votes." Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled
"Central Tabulator Votes," which caused the PC to open the vote count in a
database program like Excel.

In the "Sum of the Candidates" row of numbers, she found that in one
precinct Dean had received 800 votes and Lex Luthor had gotten 400.

"Let's just flip those," Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers
from one cell into the other. "And," she added magnanimously, "let's give
100 votes to Tiger."

They closed the database, went back into the official GEMS software "the
legitimate way, you're the county supervisor and you're checking on the
progress of your election."

As the screen displayed the official voter tabulation, Harris said, "And
you can see now that Howard Dean has only 500 votes, Lex Luthor has 900,
and Tiger Woods has 100." Dean, the winner, was now the loser.

Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, "We just edited an
election, and it took us 90 seconds."

On live national television. (You can see the clip on
[17]www.votergate.tv.) And they had left no tracks whatsoever, Harris
said, noting that it would be nearly impossible for the election software
- - or a County election official - to know that the vote database had been
altered.

Which brings us back to Morris and those pesky exit polls that had Karen
Hughes telling George W. Bush that he'd lost the election in a landslide.

Morris's conspiracy theory is that the exit polls "were sabotage" to cause
people in the western states to not bother voting for Bush, since the
networks would call the election based on the exit polls for Kerry. But
the networks didn't do that, and had never intended to.

According to congressional candidate Fisher, it makes far more sense that
the exit polls were right - they weren't done on Diebold PCs - and that
the vote itself was hacked.

And not only for the presidential candidate - Jeff Fisher thinks this hit
him and pretty much every other Democratic candidate for national office
in the most-hacked swing states.

So far, the only national "mainstream" media to come close to this story
was Keith Olbermann on his show Friday night, November 5th, when he noted
that it was curious that all the voting machine irregularities so far
uncovered seem to favor Bush. In the meantime, the Washington Post and
other media are now going through single-bullet-theory-like contortions to
explain how the exit polls had failed.

But I agree with Fox's Dick Morris on this one, at least in large part.
Wrapping up his story for The Hill, Morris wrote in his final paragraph,
"This was no mere mistake. Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board
as they were on election night. I suspect foul play."

- -------

Thom Hartmann ([18]thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored
Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated
daily progressive talk show. [19]www.thomhartmann.com. His most recent
books are "[20]The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "[21]We The People: A
Call To Take Back America," and "[22]What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return To
Democracy."

References

11. http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
12. http://ustogether.org/election04/FloridaDataStats.htm
13. http://www.rubberbug.com/temp/Florida2004chart.htm
14. http://ustogether.org/election04/PA_vote_patt.htm
15. http://www.thehill.com/morris/110404.aspx
16. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
17. http://www.votergate.tv/
18. mailto:thom@thomhartmann.com
19. http://www.thomhartmann.com/
20. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400051576/commondreams-20/ref=nosim/
21. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1579549551/commondreams-20/ref=nosim/
22. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400052084/commondreams-20/ref=nosim/

Helmet = Oebe?

Vote hacken is mogelijk, zou me niets verbazen.

Nope, I'm no helmet. I'm quite soft in the head department thank you.

Linkje verkregen van m'n sister in law, geboren en getogen in de states.

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

De foto's zijn erg vermakelijk, hehehe.



De site is ietwat traag.

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Geweldig....

Ach, ik vond het wel vermakelijk. Maar ja, als je alleen mar cia en fbi sites aan het ddorploegen bent, dan heb je er misschien niet zo'n zin in.

Inderdaad

Heersch, ik vind ze toch nog wel lief, die amerikanen.

deze is goed:

Een goed artikel:

http://www.techcentralstation.com/111604E.html

Ja, het is wel goed geschreven.
Maar beetje subjectief en komt niet overeen met mijn opinie. Behalve dat Europa slechte politici heeft. (Net zoals Amerika en de rest van de wereld.

Ludiek like it.
http://www.apologiesaccepted.com/

idd, is wel grappig initiatief

Republikeinen nemen fractieleider in bescherming

Gepubliceerd op donderdag 18 november 2004

WASHINGTON (ANP) - De Republikeinen in het Amerikaanse Huis van Afgevaardigden hebben woensdag de rijen gesloten rond hun zwaar bekritiseerde fractieleider. Door het veranderen van de partijregels mag Tom DeLay ook aanblijven als hij wordt aangeklaagd voor strafbare feiten.

In zijn thuisstaat Texas onderzoekt een grand jury momenteel of DeLay is betrokken bij illegale partijfinancieringen en witwaspraktijken. Drie medewerkers van DeLay zijn al aangeklaagd voor deze praktijken.

Strafbaar feit

In het oude Republikeinse partijstatuut stond dat een fractieleider zijn post moet opgeven als hij of zij wordt aangeklaagd voor een strafbaar feit waar twee jaar celstraf of meer voor staat. De regel luidt nu dat het eerst tot een veroordeling moet zijn gekomen.

,,We proberen onze leider te beschermen tegen een of andere fanatieke aanklager in het land'', zo verdedigde de Republikeinse afgevaardigde Henry Bonilla woensdag het besluit. DeLay zelf zei na afloop van het beraad dat de regels zijn veranderd ,,om te voorkomen dat de Democraten ze tegen ons kunnen gebruiken''.

Corruptie

De Democraten in het Huis van Afgevaardigden hebben de laatste maanden het aftreden geëist van de aartsconservatieve en compromisloze DeLay. Volgens de Democraten is er sprake van een ,,systematisch patroon van corruptie'' door DeLay. De leider van de Democratische minderheid in het Huis, Nancy Pelosi, zei woensdag dat de Republikeinen met het veranderen van de regels ,,hun morele standaard hebben verlaagd''.

Apart

hahaha! van die Apologies Accepted site:

Triest. Vooral dat mensen het nog leuk schijnen te vinden.